"Wishful hearing" and evaluating your own work

[ed.harper]

On the episode of “Can You Hear Me Now” discussing Amadeus, Christian mentioned a scene where Salieri is unjustifiably proud of his own sub-standard composition, and how this should be a caution to learn to be as objective as possible when evaluating our own work, especially as media composers.

This has been playing on my mind ever since, as I don’t know that I trust my own ability to make an unbiased assessment of the quality of the music I’m producing, and I’m not sure how to go about developing either that ability or my confidence in it. Is there a way to build up your powers of self-assessment, other than through experience?

In his recent interview with Rick Beato, Chris Thile touches on another aspect of what I think is the same phenomenon, which he calls “wishful hearing” - where as a performer or a composer, what we hear is sometimes what we imagined, rather than what is actually there (and talks a little about his strategies for managing this as a performer). What I found helpful about this (and perhaps others here will too) is that he articulates why “wishful hearing” is a valuable force too - without it, we wouldn’t be able to render musical ideas at all.

I’m curious to know whether this chimes with any of you, and how you approach honest musical self-evaluation.

[stephenrigby908]

I think that’s an interesting question, but where I have a problem is with the very concept of ‘the quality of the music’. Who or what defines that quality? If that’s about an objective aural assessment of each piece of music, then what standards do we compare against for such quality? Furthermore as genetic recombination ensures that every human on the planet is different from every other, we can never know if others hear what we hear objectively (or subjectively). It’s an interesting conundrum and I’ll be interested to see how this discussion progresses. Thanks Ed.

[javaperro]

I recently watched a YouTube by an editor (specifically for commercials) and he was talking about how valuable having a mentor was when he was starting out.

Someone who would give you honest feedback based on their own experience and expertise.

The key of course is being willing and able to take criticism and learn from it.

Where one finds a mentor…

[leighrandle]

I have definitely made this mistake, especially when starting out learning how to put music together.

It’s probably inevitable at first? Especially whilst learning I think? But hearing what you want rather than what’s actually there has frequently happened to me. Going “ear-blind” was common, I would come back to a song and think “what the hell happened to my masterpiece?!!”

And I realised over time that this problem is way, way more than just a need for “re-setting your ears” and taking a break (although obviously that’s extremely important).

The “wishful hearing” problem seems very deeply ingrained, and maybe related to denial and fear about all sorts of things.

But the most helpful thing I found for this, is to make sure I ask myself constantly:

“Yes this is all very nice.., but are you REALLY happy with the sound??”

Meaning for me; does it move me in the way I want, sound how I like, is it polished how I prefer, clean or dirty as I want, balanced or unbalanced how I want, is it expressing ME? And, is it really finished? etc..

But I’m always careful not to ask this from the point of view of judgement, especially imagined judgement from others. I only consider it with reference to me and me alone; my feelings about it.

If it’s a composer challenge, I will think about the point of view of others, but only in a “matter of fact” kind of way, relating only to whether I have done the best I can to keep to rules or a brief etc. I might ask “would I be happy enough to submit this for revisions” or something like that. It’s a little hard for me to gauge, as I have never done that in a “paid-for” scenario.

Basically, I don’t start thinking about how it might be received by others until I know I have I done the best I can, and am I OK with the faults that are left.

And that’s hard, because you want it to sound great right now, today, and it might not!

I’m not sure how I improved myself here over time, but I think I took a decision to start caring so much about the things I am writing that I just can’t face lying to myself about how it sounds.

It also helps to remind myself that what I make can always be tweaked and improved. Most of us don’t have premium equipment and a group top-rated professionals standing next to us, and that’s fine.

Interestingly, it also made me way less concerned about constructive criticism. You’d think that doing your best would make you so proud that you’d be petrified of negative feedback. But if I’m happy I’ve done my best, then I think that the prospect of getting advice on making it even better becomes exciting rather than scary.

I guess you are “wishfully hearing” when you are NOT happy with the sound, but you subconsciously decide to tell yourself that you are. It’s self-deception basically.

And now someone is about to force you to look at that. So now you don’t want the constructive advice, you want to tell them to f*&* off because they are a philistine who doesn’t know about music!

[Curtis_Berry]

I don’t know if it’s fully possible to separate yourself from your own work, because you know what went into it, and how much work it was, but I think ideally that’s what you want to do. To properly evaluate your own work, is to take yourself out of it, and perceive it as someone else, a neutral listener. I think what helps with that, is time and taking a break, sometimes we got caught up in nuances, and hyper fixate on little things, that most people aren’t listening for, but when you’re in that moment, that’s all you can hear. Sometimes taking a step back can refresh your ears, and help you listen more objectively. Another thing might be receiving a large amounts feedback, so you can get into the mind of how someone might think about a piece of music and apply to your own critical observations of your own music. Consider too if it’s worth caring about though, you don’t want your music to lose it’s uniqueness in order to appease imaginary critics. Not all criticism is equal, decide what is, and what is not worth listening too.

I also think it’s important to consider context. As media composers, you probably would need to be more critical, and listen to the piece as an editor / director would and ask, does that fit the emotional state of the project, are there clear places to cut that will make the editors job easier? And you might need to sacrifice some of your own taste for what works best for the intended use of the track. If you’re writing music for yourself, I think it matters much less.

[Ros]

This is such a great thread!! Thank you Ed for putting that question out there

For myself, I think being creative is such a tricky thing because it is so totally subjective… what speaks to one person will leave inevitably another cold - we are all bringing totally different lived cultural, emotional and philosophical experiences to a piece of work, whether we are making or listening to it or viewing it.

Wishful hearing, hmmmm… I think it’s important to revisit what I made, say, six days ago, six months ago, and remind myself that where I was then that was the best I could do, and perhaps use that to remember that I’ll feel the same way about my efforts now later down the line - that’s constructive and real and aspirational and keeps things in perspective… it makes me always want to learn more and know I have a long way to go, but it also means that on the days where the self doubt is getting very noisy I also have something in the bank to keep me trying!

Add to that surrounding myself with as much top drawer music, art, film and interesting and challenging people as possible, watching really talented people making beautiful things, so where I can’t get direct feedback for what I’m making, I think wishful hearing (which I definitely do experience in the thick of a project) and over-confidence and complacency are constantly being challenged, but in a positive way??

Maybe if one is not suffering a bit from wishful hearing, when you go back and think ooo I could have really mixed this so much better, or “did I listen to my reference track sitting inside a dustbin??” (one of my favourites!), or thinking oh that theme could have modulated there it would have really lifted that scene emotionally, then perhaps you’re not really pushing yourself past what you already know how to do… ?

Just my thoughts…

I think you’re all brilliant!

[ed.harper]

Thanks to everyone who responded for your thoughts on this; really interesting to read different points of view.

A practical means to addressing wishful hearing I’ve been finding useful recently when working in a DAW is to regularly render the track to stereo, then listen to that - through the same monitoring, but without the visual distraction of the DAW timeline. For whatever reason, this allows me to hear things that I miss when I listen to the DAW directly.

[Ros]

…and listen while I’m cooking dinner… or walking the dog… or ironing… yes I’ve found lately that helps me too

[HexaCryonic]

I compose with my synesthesia in mind. Whatever I make has to both sound and LOOK good in my mind’s eye, and that is by definition a one-of-a-kind experience. Can’t get any less objective than being forced to have an entirely unique experience every time I listen to my stuff.

That said, I do look back on things several weeks or even months after I composed them and think “damn, i thought this was good?”, so it looks like “wishful hearing” is playing a part in my experience too, or maybe I’m just getting better at assessing what can be improved.

[Michael_Urquhart]

I really really liked your response to this question Ros and I totally agree with your answer.